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The most recent messages are at the bottom of the page.

From Ron Cruz:
7 Feb 2005
          After reading Rick Tomberlin's post (page 8) about the AFL-NFL pre-season games of 1967-1969 I was inspired to try and see if I could find any scores from these games. I've always heard about these contests taking place but never really gave any second thoughts about finding information on them.   Mr. Tomberlin (and this website) made me realize that these games should be recognized for their historical value.
          After searching through many old newspaper articles, I was able to find scores for all 72 contests. I've listed them along with a few notes I was able to uncover that I hope make for interesting reading.
          I'd highly recommend to anyone/everyone to try and go to your local library and look up old newspaper editions on these games. Together I think we could help Ange create a valuable source on these forgotten games.
          I do have scoring summaries for just about every game.       -Ron Cruz-

             Thanks, Ron, for your contribution to football history.  Great job.  Your listings can be found at
         Remember the AFL
From Owen Wilson:
03 Apr 2005
     Awesome site.  As a life long
Bills fan the AFL was so special.
It is remarkable, although not surprising, but almost every email post on this site invokes memories of not only the writers’ local team, but the other stars from the opposition.
Not surprising to me, because the opposition was the NFL!
Lance Alworth said after his induction into the HOF, his greatest moment was “Joe Namath and the Jets beating the Colts”!  ~ Owen Wilson

       Owen's Dad, Clarence Wilson, was a member in the 1960's of the AFL Identity Committee, which lobbied AFL owners to retain the league's name and logo after "the merger". ~ Remember the AFL
From Jim Kelley:
4/17/2005 12:01:46 PM EDT

      Dear Ange,
I think Jerrel Wilson epitomized professionalism.  He was anything but a publicity seeker, making his statements through consistency and excellence.  His exceptional skill is evidenced by thirty-odd years passing since he played, without the Chiefs (nor most other teams) finding a punter with his reliability.
I wouldn't have heard this news without you.  Ange, thanks again for keeping me on your mailing list.
~ Jim Kelley

       It's sad that every newspaper and TV station, in every AFL city, didn't report the passing of an AFL superstar. ~ Remember the AFL
From Vincent Ray:
Clearwater, Florida
4/17/2005 12:20:09 PM EDT 
       I'm not sure who should do it, but somebody should sue
the Arena Football League for daring to call
themselves the "AFL".  This is an insult to the
American Football League and to the fans old enough to
remember a golden age for professional football.
       Maybe I'll do it.

       The AFL owners could have prevented that, by keeping the name of the American Football League after the merger.  Imagine their chagrin, now, when they see "The AFL on NBC". ~ Remember the AFL
From Bob Rettke:
22 Apr 2005
       Some of the most exciting football games I remember were the
Bills' games the season (I think it was) that they the won the AFL championship for the first time [1964]. It seemed like almost every Sunday they had to come from behind in the last few minutes--and with Jack Kemp, Cookie Gilchrist, Wray Carlton, and Elbert "Golden Wheels" Dubenion they did!  The NFL didn't and doesn't have many games like that.  The AFL had them all the time. --- Bob Rettke, former Buffalonian.

       Bob: e-mail me privately and tell me your e-mail address. ~ Remember the AFL.
From D. Mills:
26 Apr 2005
       Some of my greatest memories as a young kid was the
Dallas Texans as they played in the Cotton Bowl.   I will always remember Abner Haynes, Len Dawson and the famous Huddle Club which gave me my first exposure to professional football.    The championship game against Houston is a great memory.   Thank you for this website.

       See the Texans' championship ring, with a model of the Cotton Bowl inset into the face.
                                                          ~ Remember the AFL.
From Jeff:
5/3/2005 1:17:50 AM EDT
       Keep up the fantastic work on the golden days of the AFL.
       Hope you were able to catch the
Bills season ticket TV ad for this season.  With shots of Jack Kemp, and several shots of the mid 60's Bills in action.  Ton Donahoe told the last Bills booster club meeting that the Bills will honor the 1965 Championship team by wearing throwback AFL jerseys twice this year. Donahoe said the jerseys would be unveiled sometime this June 2005.   Lets pray that the Bills bring back the old white helmet with red standing Buffalo.
       It would be nice to see the
Bills wear the throwback duds at the home opener, then wear them when they visit the Chargers later this season.
Chargers home throwbacks are by far the best ever.
       Love the site.

          It's a good year for throwbacks, because the Bills play teams from EVERY American Football League city this year: the AFL East, the AFL West, Cincinnati, and Houston (ok, so they play the Texans instead of the Oilers, who don't exist any more). - Remember the AFL.
08 May 2005
       While we're the process of remembering the AFL, let's remember it fairly, shall we?
       Your website neglects to discuss what happened in the first full year of NFL-AFL interleague play (1970). Here's what happened. The 16 NFL teams (including Baltimore, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh) had a whopping 41-19-2 record against the 10 AFL teams.   My list follows.   Note that I exclude interconference games between old NFL teams (e.g., Baltimore vs. Green Bay) and include conference games between old NFL and old AFL teams (e.g., Baltimore vs. Oakland).

          Is it Bob Reader, or Sue Reader?  This website is devoted to the ten years of the American Football League, 1960 through 1969.   There was only one league in 1970, the NFL.    Hence, there was no "interleague play" in 1970.    Former AFL players' and teams' accomplishments, bad OR good, after the league ceased to exist, are not generally presented here. 
All of the games you mention were between NFL teams, so I suggest you post them on an NFL site.   Only four games were ever played between American Football League teams and NFL teams. They were the only pro football World Championship Games ever played, after the 1966, '67, '68, and '69 seasons.  The record in those games was American Football League 2, NFL 2.   That "common draft" really helped the NFL catch up, didn't it?  - Remember the AFL.
From J. Lorig:
5/17/2005 12:21:20 PM EDT
       Thanks so much for your website; it brings back so many pleasant memories of days gone by.    With regards to your question as to whether some of these former players should be in the Hall of Fame, my answer is only if  they were taken in the common draft.   I feel it would grossly unfair to admit someone to the Hall of Fame who was cut by an "NFL" team only to become a star in the AFL.   I question if a star in the old AFL was in reality a better football player than those considered mediocre by NFL standards.   As you can tell, I was an NFL fan first, but I really enjoyed the AFL because it was football from far away places like Denver, Buffalo, San Diego, Houston, and Oakland; I'm from the Chicago area; I even remember when CBS wouldn't give AFL scores on their post game show (Irv Cross and I went to the same high school, we even had the same coach).  Thanks for your efforts to keep a national treasure alive.              Sincerely, JL   
        PS: I still can't believe the Baltimore Colts lost SB3.

          Even if I accepted your premise that someone cut by the NFL shouldn't be in the "pro football" hall of fame, there are plenty of AFL stars who were never in the NFL: Tom Sestak, Billy Shaw, and Abner Haynes come immediately to mind.
          And as for those who were "NFL Rejects", several are already IN the "pro football" hall of fame, like
Len Dawson, Don Maynard and George Blanda.
          So there's really no reason more American Football League greats shouldn't be in the "pro football" hall of fame, except for the main one: bias and lack of respect by the selectors, who are actually a part of the NFL establishment.
- Remember the AFL.
From Mike Murphy:
St. Catharines, ONT
7 April 2005

Ode to the AFL

They started with eight
Bills, Patriots, Titans and Oilers
Broncos, Chargers, Raiders and Texans
In Super Bowl III the
Jets were spoilers

Babe, Bambi and Buck
The NFL would snub
Cookie, Golden Wheels and Speedy
They played for the 'Foolish Club'

Bye bye Balboa
So long Shea
Gone is the Rockpile
For a decade we enjoyed your stay

Mike Murphy

       Mike is a BIG AFL and CFL fan.  - Remember the AFL

From Pat Tearney:

Port Washington, WI
24 May 2005
       This is a terrific site. I grew up in Northwesern Ohio, where we used to get the broadcasts of a lot of
Buffalo Bills games in the early to mid-60s.  I think I might have been the only one in my whole high school rooting for the AFL teams in the first four Super Bowls.
       I have a question that maybe some AFL fan out there can answer. I seem to remember that at least for one or two years, the AFL All-Star game involved the AFL champion playing the rest of the All Stars.  I seem to remember
Joe Namath coming off the bench in the second-half to lead the All-Stars to a comeback win against the BillsI could be wrong on this, though.  It was a long time ago.
       I'd like to bring up a name for consideration for the AFL Hall of Fame; New York Jets guard
Dave "Haystack" Herman played most of his career before the merger (I believe) and made the All-Star team at least a couple of times.  He also moved out from guard to tackle in the 1968 AFL Championship game to take on the Raider's Ike Lassiter and then the Colt's Bubba Smith in Super Bowl III.
       Keep up the great work on the site. ~ Pat Tearney

         There was only one game with that format.   After the 1965 season, the AFL All-Stars played the AFL Champion Buffalo Bills.   The Bills led 13-6 at the half.  Namath went in, and threw two TD passes to Lance Alworth; the All-Stars won 30-19, and Namath was the MVP.  Namath was also the co-offensive MVP (with Don Maynard) in the conventional AFL East vs. AFL West All-Star game after the 1967 season.  Namath had a TD pass to Pete Lammons, one to Maynard, and Joe scored on a one-yard plunge in the last minute of play.
           Herman deserves recognition as an AFL star: he played for the Jets in the AFL from 1964 through 1969, and then until 1973.  He made the AFL All-Star Team in 1968 and 1969.
- Remember the AFL
From Liberty61:
25 May 2005
       Hi: I am seeking information on a player named Dick Christy who was a running back in the AFL from 1960-1963.   I did some research on the Internet and it appears he was an All-American at North Carolina State in the mid-50's before spending a year in the NFL with the Pittsburgh Steelers (1958).
       After being drafted in the 1960 allocation by the Oakland Raiders he then moved on to Boston where he played for the Patriots in 1960.  He subsequently moved on to the NY Titans where he established an AFL record for combined yardage with 2,147 in 1962.  He is listed on the NY Jets 1963 roster and again led NY in kick returns with 585 yards.
       I read an article on the Internet that indicates that he was killed in an automobile accident in Pennsylvania in 1966.  I was wondering if anyone had any information on why his career ended with the Jets after 1963.
       Would appreciate any help you can provide and thanks for the tremendous site.
                                                                                                      ~ Liberty61

          Christy once scored all 29 points for NC State in a game against South Carolina.  He was an AFL All-Star in 1962, when he gained 535 yards rushing and 538 receiving.  He would have had to gain over 1,000 yards on kick returns to total 2,147 . . .  I can't confirm that.  - Remember the AFL
From Rod Steiner:
Hagerstown, Maryland
26 May 2005
       Thanks for devoting your time to such a great league.   The AFL was the best league ever formed and the NFL should try to return to the days of the great 4th quarter comebacks.  The clock should always stop on incomplete passes or out of bounds plays.  It should not start until the next snap.  The clock should stop in the last quarter for first downs until the chains are set.   Teams could march the length of the field without any timeouts.
       The NFL is only worried about 3 hour games.   Home fans only get 8 games a year...they don't care if they last 4-5 hours.   They want to watch 60 minutes of football, the way it was in the original AFL.
       If you could find original rosters from each team for their 10 years, that would be interesting reading.  These are the guys who really made Pro Football!
Rod Steiner
       Remember the
Dallas Texans! The best team to ever play in Dallas!
From Iceman:
29 May 2005
       I wish there were another football league to compete with the "monopolized" NFL. In the 60's there was nothing better than to catch that one AFL game airing on Sundays. The first 3 Super Bowls were the best (pitting two leagues against each other rather than just two conferences). The AFL was a more exciting brand of football than the NFL. Too bad the USFL couldn't keep it together.
       I know the possibility of another league competing straight up against the NFL is highly remote, but man I'd like to see somebody try. Maybe Paul Allen and Bill Gates will use some of their billions to finance a new league (doesn't hurt to be a wishful thinker).
       The AFL lives forever! ~ The Iceman

          It was FOUR, not three, World Championship games between league champs, and the American Football League won the last two. The AFL was the last, best chance for a league to put the NFL in its place, and it did, but the American Football League owners were so taken by the thought that they could “join the big league”, they lost sight of the fact that the AFL was the BETTER league!
                                            - Remember
the AFL
29 May 2005
       I am an avid Raiders fan in my 30s but I love the old AFL.  I appreciate your site even if I was not alive when the AFL was around.  Thanks for taking the time and effort in making this site. I love what you have done and will always refer to it when thinking of the AFL. Even in the modern era of football, I root for the AFL teams but also as a Raider fan I have to boo our natural rivals.  That's football.  It is passionate as your website and as classy as the AFL.  Thanks for your website.
From Anthony Zagar:
1020 North Street
Racine, Wisconsin 53402
25 Jun 2005
       Enjoy all the work you've put in this web site.   Question for you  - I've heard told that the AFL wanted to put a team in Milwaukee in the 60's but Lombardi made a deal with the city to have the Packers play there to keep the AFL from having a team in Milwaukee.  Do you know if there is any truth to this.   Even though I'm a Packer fan I'm a huge AFL fan and enjoyed the high scoring games and wide open action of the original AFL and would be extremely angry if this were so.  I remember catching the late game in the afternoon and loved watching the
Chargers score and shoot off the cannon.   If you could help me with my question I thank you. ~ Anthony Zagar

          I tried to answer at your e-mail address, but it bounced.  There was to be an original AFL franchise in Minnesota, but the NFL lured them away, and Oakland got the original AFL franchise. I  never heard any story about Lombardi blocking a Milwaukee AFL entry, but I'll check it out.
          It has been reported that Lombardi actually cooperated with the AFL, letting Ben Agajanian coach the Chargers' kickers while he was on the Packers' payroll.   Read "Charging through the AFL" by Todd Tobias.  
- Remember the AFL
From Bob Ginther:
7/10/2005 11:04:29 AM EDT
Hank Stram will forever be etched in my mind scheming up the "Full House" backfield, using Ed Podolak at about 4 different positions, and in general, making my AFL Sundays miserable.  As I have said, he was a pain in the neck!  But he was "our" pain in the neck.   He'll be missed.  Even by this old Raider fan.  ~  Bob Ginther
From Bob Ginther:
7/26/2005 5:43:56 PM EDT

ConnorRaider.jpg (13596 bytes)

This is my grandson Connor.  He wouldn't keep the helmet on long enough for me to get a picture until my wife held him up in front of the mirror.  He looks pretty good in those colors to this old man.   Thanks to you I'll be able to show him AFL history instead of just telling him.   Thanks. 

Bob Ginther

Woodbridge, VA

From Jane Burt:
01 Aug 2005

                                                 ABOUT TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From Gerard Mendez:
01 Aug 2005
       I will always love the AFL this is so wonderful to see this site. ~ Gerard Mendez
From Jim Kelley:
01 Aug 2005
Dear Ange,
       In the first super bowls, an interesting point, in my opinion, was that NFL teams used the Wilson "Duke" football on offense; AFL teams used the Spalding J5-V.
       Announcers at the time stated that the J5-V was slightly thinner & longer than "The Duke."  I have one of each and that statement was true.
       In looking at today's official NFL ball, it appears to have the dimensions of the AFL balls; not the one the NFL used in the 1960's when they were the only legitimate league (NOT!)
       If you know, did the NFL end up adopting the AFL football's specs along with all the other items you've mentioned in your site?

The "Duke" was named for the Giants' Wellington Mara.  Thankfully, they dropped that name after the merger.  I don't know the answer to your question.
   The present ball does look more like the AFL ball than the "Duke".
- Remember the AFL
From Truett Portis:
03 Aug 2005
From Daniel Desmond:
183 Searles Rd.
Nashua, N.H. 03062
20 Aug 2005
       In my early teen years the Boston area had no local football team, so I was a Cleveland Browns fan (loved Jim Brown), then the
Patriots came and I was sold on the AFL.  Those games were so much fun to watch, especially the late afternoon games.  The players Larry Garron, Babe Parilli, Charlie Long, Billy Neighbors, Nick Bouniconti, Ron Hall just to name a few, I can name them all, were special.  My favorite and someone who should be in the [pro football] hall [of fame], Gino Cappelletti.  Some of the opponents I enjoyed watching were Charlie Tolar, Walt Suggs, George Blanda, Daryle Lamonica, Cookie Gilchrist, Keith Lincoln, Ernie Ladd, Earl Faison, Tom Sestak: I have many great memories from a GREAT league.
From Todd Nowicki:
23 Aug 2005
       This is by far the best web site of its kind.
       Being born in 1965, I wasn't able to enjoy the league as many of your guests were lucky enough to have done.  However, I have been able to re-live many of the great AFL memories by speaking with a local legend,
Walt Suggs (Houston Oilers).  Walt is a wonderful man. From what I have read his AFL/NFL career was outstanding including team records for longevity and several Pro-Bowl appearances.
       Can you tell me why he has not been elected to the AFL Hall of Fame?  Is there anyone I can contact to find out about his eligibility?

          Two likely reasons are that Suggs was an offensive lineman, a position habitually under-valued, and that he played for the Houston Oilers, who left town and have few advocates and fewer sources of historical information.  Suggs played in the AFL from 1962 - 1969 and made the AFL All-Star Team in 1967 and 1968.  If you (or any reader) have more detailed biographical information on Suggs: comments by co-players, opponents,  or coaches; descriptions of memorable performances or physical attributes; or other pertinent information about his career in the AFL, send it to me, and I'll consider adding him to my pages, as a notable player, or as a HOFer.   - Remember the AFL
26 Aug 2005
       Thanks for the opportunity to visit your website.   I was 10 years old when the AFL was born, just at the time that football, and sports in general, came alive for me.  I fondly remember watching the early AFL games and remember all of the stars......and many who were not!!  I was such a diehard AFL fan at 16 that I got stomach cramps from the pre-game tension of the first Super Bowl between the
Chiefs and the Packers.  Wow!
       Can anybody tell me where to get some old DVDs of any of the AFL games from the 60s?
       Thanks! ~ Gerry
From G. Crittendon:
Atlanta, GA
Thank you for this forum to share our memories of the best 5-year period of competitive sports in my life time.  From 1965 to 1970 between the NFL and the AFL.   See, in 1965 I was 7 years old and a veteran with pro football.   My uncle was a player for the Cardinals, Packers and Bears.  My dad introduced me to the game in 1962 and at that time the Detroit Lions were on a downward trend since their championship run in 1957, and it was during the the time that the Giants, Browns, Colts and Packers were jockeying for NFL Supremacy.   So by 1965, I was really intrenched into the NFL.  My involvement in the AFL came as a part of me declaring my own independence from my dad as part of being a rebel.
          My dad was in his late 20s to early 30s and he was traditional and "old school".  He thought that the NFL was the only football and thought that the AFL were vagabonds or second class, i.e.
Joe Namath's comments after Super Bowl I.  I witnessed Jim Brown's last game in the Pro Bowl and saw the emergence of Gale Sayers and Dick Butkus in 1965, and I got geeked.  Well as I mentioned I had my sense of rebellion and quiet as it is kept, Sayers and Butkus were prototype AFL players in the tight confines of the traditional NFL vise. Being from Detroit and on cold late fall early afternoons it could become quite nippy outdoors.   I remember after watching the Browns and Giants at 1 pm on CBS, I turned the dial to Channel 4 and I saw my first AFL game: the Kansas City Chiefs and the Oakland Raiders.  To my surprise i noticed some lively differences.  For one, the broadcast seemed a lot brighter and clearer.  Then I noticed that the field was brighter and was more decorated with stripes, and team and league logos everywhere.  I also noticed that the best announcers in sports, Charlie Jones and Curt Gowdy made every game seem like it was an event.  But the best difference outside of the wide open play and speed of the game was the players name on the back of the jerseys.
          That was the clincher for me, because with me now only 8 or 9 years of age I could get acquainted and familiar with the players.  The uniforms were more distinctive than the NFL's, i.e. the lightning bolt of the
Chargers.  Oh, by the way, my old man bought a console color TV in the middle of the following week so I was able to watch in color the next week. Well I was hooked next week when I saw the Raiders play a home game, maybe against the Broncos.  The Raiders had the numbers on the 10 20 30 ... yard lines in those triangles or shields, and the Silver, Black, and White triangles in the end zone, as NBC used to say, "in living color".   Well that's the opening of my entry: more to follow.

             Too bad you don't remember 1960-1964, because THAT was also a pretty good five-year period!   - Remember the AFL
09 Sep 2005
          I just found your web site and couldn't believe it, there are still some of us die hard old school AFL fans around.   I was 12 when the
Bills took Richie Lucas. The Bills came to Niagara Falls to play a basketball game against our Church League All-Star team and you could meet the players and they would take the time to talk to you.  Billy Cannon was my favorite player even though he played for the Oilers.  Got to admit that I still hate the Chiefs for stealing our chance to win SB I, which we would have, and if they had played the SB the previous two years people would be saying "Green Bay WHO?".  Really, thanks for the web site. ~ skippetts

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